American Muscle Cars Australia
Club News => AMCCA Members Chat Room => Topic started by: cpu on July 23, 2009, 01:23:05 AM
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I have just read and signed the petition: Car Enthusiasts Against lowering and raising vehicle laws !
If your so inclined, copy and paste this into emails and send to your friends
You can view this petition at: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/tell-a-friend/4956833
From the above petition site :
"With Strict new laws being implemented by the New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority affecting the raising and lowering of suspension on any light motor vehicle, we the Enthusiasts are majorly affected with seemingly nothing that we can do to stop our passion and livelihood in some cases to be destroyed by misinformed state government figures.
We have a passion, a passion for cars and trucks. The Majority of Vehicle enthusiasts are not young P plater "hoons" as the media portray, but in fact people of all ages and backgrounds who share something in common which is the modification of their most prized possetion, their cars.
These new laws that Mr Michael Daley (NSW roads minister) has introduced, affect all aspects of vehicle modifiers state wide.
No statistics have been shown to the public of raised or lowered motor vehicles being the cause of accidents or even increasing the liklihood of an accident !
These laws have been brought in to which seems to be a scare tactic to the rest of the nation who use their cars and the road just for getting from A to B , the government are trying to make your average joe think that our modified vehicles put his life and his families lives at risk, not to mention the media showing cars doing burnouts and street racing , all of a sudden the nation thinks because our vehicle is modified that we are out street racing and doing illegal activity on our roads. Now the fact is some people choose to engage ina cts of stupidity and that is their choice, but enough is enough because we wish to have a modified vehicle we should not be portrayed under the same stereotype as law breaking citizens.
We need to band together, we need to show the public, the government and any governing body that our vehicles' can be modified and can be safe !
one major spanner in the works is the wording in "VSI 50" found at "http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_50_raising-and-lowering-vehicles_17-july-2009.pdf" "Chassis rails must not be notched or cut to lower a vehicles ride height." now it has been a law for a long time for regular cars that are a monocoque body can not be tubbed or notched because it potentially can weaken that car and in an accident it could be for the worse. Now with full chassis vehicles such as minitrucks (utes) and hot rods / customs notches have been allowed if done correctly and certified by an RTA approved automotive mechanical engineer.
Now the RTA are telling us they will be banned across the board which is going to affect many many businesses and individuals alike !
another thing written in "VSI 50" is "Drop axles/spindles must not be used to lower a vehicles ride height." Now there isno reason for these to be made illegal they are infact a great way to lower your vehicle, they maintain factory suspension geometry and in most cases lower the vehicle by 2 inches which is now the limit under the new legislation.
obviously the lowering of vehicles is more so affecting us but also rasing too, there are many thousands of 4x4 enthusists in this country. They go off the road they need to raise their suspension , and have larger than factory tyres. These new laws are now going to stop this from being possible if they wish to drive on the road and lets face it if done correctly and in some cases engineered then they are very safe for our roads and it is not likely that all 4 wheel drive owners that modify their off road designed vehicles are going to have another large vehicle that can tow their vehicle to where they wish to go offroad.
now these new laws as a whole have been released on the 17th of july 2009 and have been proposed to take affect on july 31st 2009. that is 2 weeks from release date. Now 2 weeks is not satisfactoy, i myself know of at least 50-100 vehicles being built within workshops and inhome garages, a lot are under instruction of engineers before they are finished and inspected. Now these vehciles apparently unless they are completed , engineered and registered by the 31st of july 2009 will no longer be able to be registered in NSW, this means potentially millions of dollars of motor vehicles that will never see our roads because of laws that are not fair nor needed.
Now the RTA have told me on the phone that they do not know anything more than what they read on VSI 50, so if they dont know , we don't know then who knows ?
please sign this petition if you wish to see a review on these new laws that affect a large part of the automotive industry and community."
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Originally posted by cpu
The Majority of Vehicle enthusiasts are not young P plater "hoons" as the media portray
hey speak for yourself!! ;x
Hopefully we can stop this bullsh#t law before it goes any further!
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not sure if this club has anything going on on August 1st but it could be an idea to get the word out and get alot of clubs in Sydney, all types of cars to join in a protest drive?? maybe a drive slow??
would anyone be interested in this??
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Originally posted by 65pony
not sure if this club has anything going on on August 1st but it could be an idea to get the word out and get alot of clubs in Sydney, all types of cars to join in a protest drive?? maybe a drive slow??
would anyone be interested in this??
JOEL...........
Have you ever been on a cruise with this lot?
Well driving SLOW is not an option!;x
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haha that's very true!
most of you bast*rds don't even slow down for the little old P plater on the cruises along the hwy
Just because i'm speed limited :mad:
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Not long to go Joel, it'll be worth the wait!!! Maybe a cruise thru the city or some beach side suburb with lotsa al-fresco dining areas. The fumes & exhaust rumble would make people notice.
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Originally posted by 65pony
........Just because i'm speed limited :mad:
Yeah, you own a Ford. ;17 ;17
Sorry, couldn't resist. hehehehe!
Seriously though, I like ya idea of a protest cruise. I'll put the feelers out to see if one is being organised and report back.
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I have just read and signed the petition: Car Enthusiasts Against lowering and raising vehicle laws !
Come on everyone who feels we are being ripped off, sign your name.
Have noticed some people from the club have already signed, good on you :)
Cheers Maureen
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Get your car engineered and you have no problems.
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From what I heard on the teev your can lower 50mm so whats the problem
Its the 4 inches 100mm these young hoons do that restricts the steering and all the mods and stolen bits their cousins are wacking on the cars, turbo everything and these cars get pink slipped by their cousins as well.
so untill they kill themselves this problem doesnt surface.
Its amazing how some put huge donks in little cars and beef up the brakes for a reason.Buy the beast in the first place factory then the gov or rta cant fiddle with more laws and rules.THey changed the fuel to unleaded so how are u going to stop this petition yeh pigs.Some of us have rhd mods done but we are I guess a bit more sensible on the road and 40yrs older he he!
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Originally posted by heven67
Get your car engineered and you have no problems.
I agree, add a blower or something unnatural, sure, but "dropping". Both my sons are in the auto trades & had many vehicles engineered at very reasonable cost, like 2.5 lt turbo/4 wheel disc/lowered Gemini, adding 13b turbo to an early model RX7 etc, , plus countless numbers of their mates doing alot more (thank god there all driving sedate V8's now) but they still got pulled over & no matter what cert you got, the authorities will always find something to pick, especially if you're young. Us old farts (I'm 58) don't have a problem, we are invincible, ALMOST!!!!!
BTW, I have signed the petition!
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the law their putting in place stops any car no matter what make or model from being lowered more than 50mm. After 50mm their is a grey area where it is upto the cop to decide what he wants to do. Now this does not only apply to cars lowered but also cars being raised. So any 4WD raised after August 1st is at risk aswell!
They have made this law also a red sticker applicable offence, meaning you will have to have your car towed home or possibly impounded depending once again on the police officer.
Now this law "apparently" applies to all motor vehicles and drivers of all ages. Which means where all at risk (young drivers more so I can guarantee!!)
CPU any update on a possible protest cruise??
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Haven't heard anything on a protest cruise but there are apparently some of the 4x4 guys trying to be organize a meeting with the minister. Don't give them their chances but we shall see.
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After looking at the RTA web site, and particularly figure 3, there is no way that a stretch limo will pass that test.
"http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_50_raising-and-lowering-vehicles_17-july-2009.pdf"
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Originally posted by bonnevista
After looking at the RTA web site, and particularly figure 3, there is no way that a stretch limo will pass that test.
"http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_50_raising-and-lowering-vehicles_17-july-2009.pdf"
copy and paste link !
makes for some interesting reading ...........
I like the one "A Vehicle that is out-of-control poses a risk to other road users "
this one is definitely NOT a revenue raiser is it !!!!!!!!!!;I:mad:
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Never been one for online petitions..I think there worthless....
Much better to send a letter or email to your local member and have locals in your area to do the same.....Just my opinion...
Remembering that Michael Daly is only the mouthpiece,sure He's the Minister and Hes been there for about 12 months,the goons at the RTA have been there for years there the ones pushing for this along with the coppers.
You cant reason with the RTA,have a look at some of them that work there,seriously they still wear cardigans,and drink twinnings at 9.15 every single day with one scotch finger biscuit...
If ever your dealing with them regarding your car in a build up for example never give them your name when you call for info,its like they have a black book then when your car is ready and they handle the paperwork,they come to play.Cardigans and all.
Liz had a 2L EFI engine that I put in here car,so we went from a smokey old 1.6l 79 model engine to a 90's fuel injected unleaded engine so one would assume better emissions unleaded fuel etc and these goons carried on like pork chops.
Dont think that being engineered is a saviour either,In court or at the end of the day it may help you,not gaurantee you,Its entirely upto the copper who pulls you over,they can write what ever ticket they like and then you the owner has to deal with it,weather that ticket is fitting to the car or not.
Liz's car was engineered and she was pretty handy with what was done with it,she was pulled over and the coppers gave her heaps,she showed him the engineering papers and he continued he tried to pin her for untidy wirring under the dash,along with some crap about no charcoal cannister,that was under the guard that she was able to point out,when she explained that the wiring he could see was actually the loom for the ECU,he wasnt so bad,its upto the owner of the car to be familiar with both there car and the rules,otherwise its open slather in there favor.
Unsure if they still do but years ago the headlight centre height from memory was 600mm,the coppers where running 500 or 550,be interesting to see what they run and what the reg is now.
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I spoke to some mates who have some pretty nice cars (even though their rice burners) and they all seems to be pretty keen.
We put up a post on their usual forum and their has been an overwhelming response..
How many guys would be up for this?? A big meet at a location somewhere in Sydney and then a cruise to the gong for maybe a big bbq?? Hopefully aim to get as many people and cars aware of this to get a huge turnout and media involved...
We want to try and get as many different types of cars as possible to show it really affects all cars and all ages not just us young guys.
;7
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Only thing that could be a worry is that they will use this as an excuse to defect everyone! But I'll be in!
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yea that's the only real concern we have. But if were able to hook up some media support then maybe they will save face and only monitor it rather than disrupt it.
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Originally posted by 69DirtyRat
Only thing that could be a worry is that they will use this as an excuse to defect everyone! But I'll be in!
I am a chance also depending on date, don't have a prob being defected (I hope) as mine is completely stock except for exhaust, but anything for a worthwhile cause.
(http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss45/gdivola/IMG_8935.jpg)
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Originally posted by 65pony
yea that's the only real concern we have. But if were able to hook up some media support then maybe they will save face and only monitor it rather than disrupt it.
Hey guys, I'm not an organiser, I'm a follower, but what about "FLETCH" from Classic Restos. With his contacts & blessing there could be media coverage!!!!
Can someone take this onboard for our young Joel? Who knows, Joel could be our future president, he's got the keeness & who else at 19 even drives a Mustang (or AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR) let alone owns one!
"FORMAN MATERIAL"
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If there is enough cars and it looks spectacular then I'm sure I could rally the TV media.
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Originally posted by GT SALLY
Hey guys, I'm not an organiser, I'm a follower, but what about "FLETCH" from Classic Restos. With his contacts & blessing there could be media coverage!!!!
Can someone take this onboard for our young Joel? Who knows, Joel could be our future president, he's got the keeness & who else at 19 even drives a Mustang (or AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR) let alone owns one!
"FORMAN MATERIAL"
gee thanks mate! ;F
If anyone has any useful contact please let me know so I can get busy. CPU do you know any details for the 4WD guys??
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Originally posted by 69DirtyRat
If there is enough cars and it looks spectacular then I'm sure I could rally the TV media.
As James Cagney said "YOU DIRTY RAT" Good on you!
Having 32 & 27 year old sons with mates driving GT Falcon replicas & one real GT, turbo rice burners etc, I will try to get them involved, even my little woman driving my stock "lowered" '96 Celica.
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Originally posted by 65pony
Originally posted by GT SALLY
Hey guys, I'm not an organiser, I'm a follower, but what about "FLETCH" from Classic Restos. With his contacts & blessing there could be media coverage!!!!
Can someone take this onboard for our young Joel? Who knows, Joel could be our future president, he's got the keeness & who else at 19 even drives a Mustang (or AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR) let alone owns one!
"FORMAN MATERIAL"
gee thanks mate! ;F
If anyone has any useful contact please let me know so I can get busy. CPU do you know any details for the 4WD guys??
As they say in the Philippines, "Walang unaman" which means "your welcome"
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Joel,good idea...
There was a cruise on sat with the commodore club they where apparently running along heathcote road for 2 hours solid,the commodore and ford forums are really active let me know and I should be able to get a mate to slap something on the ford forums.
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Originally posted by Muzzy 66
Joel,good idea...
There was a cruise on sat with the commodore club they where apparently running along heathcote road for 2 hours solid,the commodore and ford forums are really active let me know and I should be able to get a mate to slap something on the ford forums.
At 19, Joels a "LEGEND" People call me a legend, but that's coz I'm 58!!!
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I looked at this site, they have a blog about it, maybe you can contact them? http://www.4wdnsw-act.asn.au/
also
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/clubs/index.php
and from this site is a letter to copy, sign and send to your local member of parliament http://www.4wdaction.com.au/new_rta_height_and_lift_laws/nsw_vsi_suspension_mp.html
also they have a link to other 4wd clubs in NSW http://www.4wdaction.com.au/clubs/index.php
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Luke that'd be great if you could spread the word around!
Originally posted by 69DirtyRat
I looked at this site, they have a blog about it, maybe you can contact them? http://www.4wdnsw-act.asn.au/
also
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/clubs/index.php
and from this site is a letter to copy, sign and send to your local member of parliament http://www.4wdaction.com.au/new_rta_height_and_lift_laws/nsw_vsi_suspension_mp.html
also they have a link to other 4wd clubs in NSW http://www.4wdaction.com.au/clubs/index.php
Thanks mate, I just flew out some emails to the 4WD guys so we will wait and see now
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Obviously if anyone hears of a big car rally Sat or Sun let me know so I can try and alert the TV stations.
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anyone know a good date to set this for??
I was thinking this weekend because that's when they come into place but theirs no time to plan or get the word out.
any ideas on a date would be great...
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Personally I thing its a big load of rubbish, There was a big hoo-haa when wats his name the baldie doode ban the load doof doofs subs now it lowerings turn, I dont thinks there is anything to worry about as its been said before its the hoons they are after, I kow cause my youngest son is one of them!
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I understand where your coming from but after my weekends experience, my already low faith in the police was destroyed!!
Their really needs to be something said! This is only the start of their laws, almost a water tester to see if anyone argues. I can guarantee if nothing is said now in the early stages, their will be a whole lot more of restrictive laws that will be passed over night and enforced.
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Originally posted by 65pony
I understand where your coming from but after my weekends experience, my already low faith in the police was destroyed!!
you actually have faith in the revenue raisers ??????
sad isnt it that we now live in a police state !
police generally have more powers than magistrates have in many instances !
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The point of the protest for me is not so much the lowering/ raising issue its more about politicians doing what ever they want, when ever they want, without consulting the people that put them in office! Isnt that the point of our whole political system, they are Public Servants they are supposed to serve our needs.
We are becoming more and more a NOT Free country with way to much unthought out regulation. I have to deal with a lot of these moron politicians on a daily basis! Rees and Roozandaal dont even have driving licences! and these people tell us what is good for the automotive industry and tell people who know and breath cars what is best for them!! And if you dont comply well you must be a Hoon (in a politicians eyes)!
If we dont start standing up to these uninformed politicians we will end up with expensive cars that will ONLY live in your garage and wont be driven!
So lets get behind this cause whether it affects you or not because one day it will affect you!:D
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Originally posted by 69DirtyRat
The point of the protest for me is not so much the lowering/ raising issue its more about politicians doing what ever they want, when ever they want, without consulting the people that put them in office! Isnt that the point of our whole political system, they are Public Servants they are supposed to serve our needs.
We are becoming more and more a NOT Free country with way to much unthought out regulation. I have to deal with a lot of these moron politicians on a daily basis! Rees and Roozandaal dont even have driving licences! and these people tell us what is good for the automotive industry and tell people who know and breath cars what is best for them!! And if you dont comply well you must be a Hoon (in a politicians eyes)!
If we dont start standing up to these uninformed politicians we will end up with expensive cars that will ONLY live in your garage and wont be driven!
So lets get behind this cause whether it affects you or not because one day it will affect you!:D
Hear, Hear!
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Andy you made some strong points,WE should petition the RTA as well
to set up an seperate department that serves us better and undertsands
the sort of cars we drive.It seem to me this head in the clouds or the trough
approach will only lead further away from why they let us have these cars
in the first place.As more and more cars arrive from the states and of course
I'm talkin American here and as different ministers get elected or shuffled
at present there is no direction.Someone who really understands and has
the experience to look after us would be a more positive step, even as an
aid for all those workshops doing the changes.police only know so much
a certificate from RTA along with the rego details.So lets get someone in
Office who knows cars and talks with car clubs and not the broad term "transport" leave the hoons out in the cold
in this category
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We need an organisation like SEMA here to lobby the politicians to stop laws like this from passing.
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Joel any dates as of yet?
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I sent a letter to my local member of parliament yesterday! I copied the one from the 4wd clubs and slightly changed it, if anyone wants to do the same use this link
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/new_rta_height_and_lift_laws/nsw_vsi_suspension_mp.html
and to find your local member go to here
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARLMENT/members.nsf/V3Home
and click on the 'Current members of Parliament' and find your area.
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Originally posted by Muzzy 66
Joel any dates as of yet?
nah mate I think it will have to be at the start of september so we don't clash with any shows or club runs of any club.
I'm getting emails daily asking when it's going to be on, so the sooner I pick a date the better.
Anyone object to the start of september??
by the way I was sent this today aswell, seems they have woken up for now....
http://163.189.7.150/newsevents/downloads/minister_releases/29072009_car_modification_laws.pdf
jpg copy below
Ragards
CPU
[align=center]
(http://www.splashedpaint.com/AMCC/2009/JustTalk/CarModificationLaws01.jpg)
[/align]
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Originally posted by 65pony
nah mate I think it will have to be at the start of september so we don't clash with any shows or club runs of any club.
I'm getting emails daily asking when it's going to be on, so the sooner I pick a date the better.
Anyone object to the start of september??
by the way I was sent this today aswell, seems they have woken up for now....
http://163.189.7.150/newsevents/downloads/minister_releases/29072009_car_modification_laws.pdf
As a thought, it would be worth while coordinating it with the people who have been talking to the minister so the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.
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ok do you have any contact details for these people?? Ive sent the 4WD clubs an email but as of yet no response...
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See it just proves that Pollies arent in touch with the people! Why didnt Min. Daley consult the right people in the first place!!! instead of a stupid knee jerk reaction!
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Originally posted by 69DirtyRat
See it just proves that Pollies arent in touch with the people! Why didnt Min. Daley consult the right people in the first place!!! instead of a stupid knee jerk reaction!
Cause he's a jerk! ;17
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Daley is only the mouthpiece,its the RTA who propose and impliment..
Luckily in the car world there is numerous bodies who can represent.
Before owning the muzzy I was into trail bike ridding,on a registered bike mainly ridding the forests etc etc...Not the no hand back flip i wanna die stuff...
Up around Newcastle is the Wattagans Forest,always in the news mainly for the actions,of the w/end warriors generally wearing flannos and volleys,then burning everythinga round at night to keep warm.
We all get tarnished with the one brush,riders dont really have a group that represents them,the wattagans have slowly been taken over acre by acre by Nat Parks as they can close areas down to access but then still let the Forestry do as they wish.
There was notification of 'consoltation' regarding the closing of some trails,there where on line petitions,there was talk of rallies,the Manufacturers should be involved to help out...Within a week gates had been put up,not locked but erected,this was in the consult period...Complete hogs wallop,still nothing has been done.
The car community is a wider community,and more then lilkey will get some changes to the policy,It wont be scrapped it will be ammended.
I wish them all well but I hope they are smart,they will only get one decent go in Macquarie St,The riders blew there chance when a small group,mainly geared around organising rides got on board with an MP who was a rat bag and ultimatley got punted from Parliament for allowance irregularities and a few other bits and have as far as I know never been taken serioulsy, or back into Mac st again.
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I think it was Daley this time because a mate of mine who called various people in the rta to find out what the regulations actually meant, they said they didnt even know about the changes until they were proposed and werent consulted about the changes???
I think our parliamentary system sux, Ministers are given these portfolios they know absolutely nothing about (apart from a minority,John Hatzistergos was a lawyer and he is the Attorney General). They have to learn about there position and can take years! then they get replaced! Why do you think there is so many stuff ups! Most of the Ministers are nerdy and dont have any true life experiences. Like I said before Min. Roosandaal was Min. for Roads BUT has never had his license! What the hell would he know about transport! And the experiences car travellers face! He gets chauffered everywhere (& rides in bus lanes!). I was at a press conference with Roosandaal and with a straight face he said that " traffic in Sydney is no worse than 10years ago", everybody jaws dropped at such a ridiculous statement and obviously he got some very bad advice!!!!
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Originally posted by 65pony
ok do you have any contact details for these people?? Ive sent the 4WD clubs an email but as of yet no response...
No I don't unfortunately. Only have seen what you and the others have been posting. 69DirtyRat may know.
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One would be thinking that the Council Motor Clubs would be getting involved with this issue, but knowing this group they are not one bit interested in helping in this matter, because they want cars on the roads as they were produced. If this was about vintage or veteran cars they would be jumping up & down. I will be speaking to the President of the CMC tomorrow & getting her opions. Also I will contact the Presidents of car clubs similar to ours & get their ideas as well & then speak to a couple of ministers that I know.
;v Garry ;M:cool:
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This daley dude is the mp for maroubra which is around the corner from la perouse (hoon city)so i would say he's just opened his big mouth to make the locals think he is doing something about it , there is a big write up about it in the local paper.
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Can you scan the article and post it up on the fourm?
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Here it is, as the greeks would say ,MALAKIA
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t200/68pony/Scannedat7-31-200910-51AM.jpg)
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Poostie malaka!
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Originally posted by Bumblebee
Poostie malaka!
;x;x;x
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Originally posted by Bumblebee
Poostie malaka!
Now that's just rude ;17 (sweetie)
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hey since when did a car enthusiast automatically become a hoon ???????
I am glad that the new law encompassed raising as well because it involved the 4wd clan ......farmers and shooters that have a way better lobby group than us car enthusiasts !....i feel that without their involvement that law would be in force as of tomorrow !
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Basically any Modified car is a HOON in Daleys eyes according to that newspaper report! What an uninformed ignorant idiot, Why dont we take the rules further and get rid of all V8s that way politicians will have to have chauffered prius's!
When the next election comes around please please everybody we need to vote these idiots out!!!
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Rta need to chat with car club organisations and post out updates on any proposed rule changes in vehicle modifications.
Rta should have a web site that deals with these issues like our forum.
Rta should have list of approved modifiers and engineers and parts sellers that meet all their standards.
Kebab motor pink slips should be better regulated.
Minister for muscles cars yeh.get a shannons guy into politics
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Originally posted by roadhound
Rta need to chat with car club organisations and post out updates on any proposed rule changes in vehicle modifications.
Rta should have a web site that deals with these issues like our forum.
Rta should have list of approved modifiers and engineers and parts sellers that meet all their standards.
Kebab motor pink slips should be better regulated.
Minister for muscles cars yeh.get a shannons guy into politics
Actually it is car clubs that need to form a lobby group to get OUR voice heard !
there are hoons out there always has been always will be !
think even the DOOF DOOF brigade are classed by the police and the minister as hoons !
Resellers/manufactures /modification shopsetc like Pedders,some of the larger 4WD and maybe even Supercheap need to form an organisation like SEMA to act on the motorists behalf and actually try to make the idiots(ministers) understand the industry of personalising cars !
However like everything else in this country not to many people actually cast their vote with any thought (I call them SHEEPLE )
hey we live in a country where aspiring politicians really want to be at the top of the ballot paper so that they can be swept in to power on the donkey vote !
do we really expect people to get together for something as basic and simple as our means of transport !
Ministers have to be made to realise that we DO vote and we will excersize our option to remove any politician that treats us unfairly !
anyway will stand down off of soap box now !
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And this one as well....
Wont be many opinions left here..